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In this video, we dive deep into the incredible journey of Zachary Kepes, building a 300 rental property portfolio without spending a single dime on marketing! Discover the innovative strategies and insider tips that allowed him to grow his impressive portfolio in this interview, hosted by Jesse Burrell, CEO of BatchService. We’ll cover essential topics such as: – How to leverage networking and referrals to find potential rental properties – The importance of building strong relationships with property owners and real estate agents – Creative financing options to acquire properties with little to no upfront cost – The role of online platforms and community engagement in attracting tenants – Proven methods to scale your portfolio efficiently and effectively Whether you’re a seasoned investor or just starting out in real estate, this video is packed with valuable insights to help you expand your rental portfolio without the need for costly marketing campaigns. Join us on this exciting journey and learn how you too can achieve financial freedom through real estate!
I believe in karma. This business I’m telling you, there’s so much karma. If you always operate above the table, you do the right thing, good things are coming. You can never get too emotional about a deal if it’s not meant to be.
You don’t chase it. If you lose it, I promise you there’s two or three more that are gonna come your way in the next day or two that are gonna be a better investment for you, better deployment of your capital and time. So never get too caught up on the emotions of a deal. Always serve the people to the highest level based on their utility and needs, and good things are coming your way.
I promise you.
What is going on, you guys? Jesse Burrell here, CEO of Batch Service.
I am the host today, and I actually got to bring on a good friend of mine. His name is Zachary Keeps, and he’s an absolute beast. I’ve known him in the real estate world for quite a while now. So, really, what this is about today, just to let you guys know, he has over three hundred rental properties, and he’s gonna show you how he did it all by himself.
Not a acquisition team, not a bunch of people on his team. He just figured out a way to get a bunch of deals, and I’m excited for him to talk to you guys about it. Zach, what’s up? There we go.
Good to be here. Honored to be here.
So I was impressed from the first moment that we met, and I think I heard of you through a friend of a friend and had a wholesale deal. Called you. You didn’t buy it because you’re cheap.
But because I’m cheap or the deal was shitty?
Maybe a little bit of both.
Okay.
But no.
And then you’re like, I have all these properties, and I assumed you had this big team. And then, you know, I think I really got to know you at Carlos Reyes’ wedding. We were sat together. We were the the white table.
That’s right. That’s so funny. Right.
I guess, tell when did you get started? How did you get into this? How did you I I I always say you’re the guy that’s, like, slow and steady wins the race because I was like but, like, Zach’s this incredible dude. It’s so cool. And, like, dude, he’s just been really consistent for a really long time. Yep. You’re obviously brilliant too, but let’s let’s get into it.
Tell people what you’re about.
Sure. So, originally from Detroit, Michigan where the hustle began, you know, the hustle behind the hustle. Came out here in two thousand two, didn’t know pretty much anybody, and slow and steady wins the race. Right? It’s all about being the marathon, visionary and player, and it’s not a sprint. It’s it’s it’s a long term race. I’ve just been consistent, you know, with my head down and rolling up my sleeves and putting on my pants every morning in the shoes, hitting the streets.
Long before Batch came along, I wish there was Batch when I got started, which is an interesting conversation. It was about, you know, direct relationships, showing up, you know, belly to belly relationships is how I pretty much built my company, one home, one relationship at a time. So two thousand two came out, didn’t even have a real estate background, got my license in nine days, and then it was all about networking, hitting the streets, calling the agents, the face to face interactions, building the construction teams, and buying again one house at a time, to build the portfolio. And I
can delve into, you know, how it transpired and everything else, but I’ve been doing the same thing for twenty two years. So it’s crazy. You talk about monotony and staying focused on one thing so many people look at a million different things at once, but I think you wanna be an expert at one and stay hyper focused and not worry about, you know, other cars passing you in different lanes and and types of vehicles and enamored by the material shining object syndrome and just reinvest in yourself in the business, and that multiplies and has that domino effect of success.
Did you get started doing any, like, listings or anything like that? Or was it always really focused on starting to build a portfolio for cash flow? Yeah.
So I was blessed that I had you know, I started with OPM, other people’s money.
My cousins in the Midwest had a a real estate firm, and they were the capital behind the company.
And so they had the money. We were the human capital and, it was all with investment. So went out and started, you know, not representing anybody, but just vertically integrated. They had the money.
We had the the human capital Mhmm. One home at a time, and then we started advertising back in the day in two thousand two, two thousand three on TV, on billboards. We had a company one eight hundred no agent and went out and bought houses direct and was solely flipping early on. So we buy the house, stabilize them and flip them flip them flip them until, you know, on my prorated share of that joint venture, I could utilize that capital then to buy my own houses.
Okay. And then when did you buy your first rental property just for because Great point. Real question. Real quick question.
You all your rental properties are owned today only by you. Correct? You don’t have owners on anything?
I have, I have my own rental portfolio, and I have one of the OPM original investors in my company Mhmm. From two thousand ten that we have a portfolio that we own fifty fifty as well outside of Zac Ventures.
Gotcha.
So I realized, you know, hindsight’s twenty twenty and learning. Of course, you need capital to buy these deals. And when the when we the market imploded in two thousand, you know, seven, eight, nine Yeah. Yeah.
You know So what did that do to you during that time?
Well, I wasn’t I didn’t have any leverage. So Ah. That was the key. So we were flipping everything. So I didn’t get caught with my pants down, which is really important.
I didn’t have to do short sales. I didn’t go through bankruptcies or anything else. So I was always bankable the whole time. It’s important that we had OPM, we had stability and because we’re flipping, we weren’t holding a lot of inventory Right.
Which is great. So it’s weird when you look back and say, okay, I bought these houses for example Maryville for one fifty and we sold it at two hundred or paid two hundred and sold it at two seventy five. Now all of a sudden, those same assets were trading at thirty thousand dollars a year later. So when you look at it, when Warren Buffett says, when people are fearful, be greedy.
When people are greedy, be fearful.
Right.
Well, there was so much greed that, you know, these hair salon stylists own twenty homes on the block and that, you know, anyone who’s getting qualified. If you had a heartbeat, you could buy homes. Baby. Right.
So it’s crazy. So what I did was when we sold off stuff, I was always had contingency money. I think it’s very important when you’re playing the long game to always have liquidity and cash and capital on the sidelines for an opportunity that we saw, which is rare in two thousand nine where you could buy homes at a major discount. And the rents weren’t, you know, horrible.
So you’re getting crazy. I was getting twenty cap rates back in the day. Of course, that’s impossible to get today. But back then, you’re like, this doesn’t make sense.
Like, you’re buying these houses for literally, my cheapest home I ever bought was twenty five thousand dollars on Mitchell on forty seventh Avenue.
So I bought a house, wholesale that’s, actually, I flipped it.
Like, six years ago Mhmm.
It was in, like, seventeenth Ave in Camelback or something over there. Yeah.
Dude paid ten grand for it in, like, o nine.
You paid ten grand?
No. He did. Oh, wow. And then he sold it to me for a hundred and twenty grand.
It was probably a condo.
No. It was a It was a house.
It was a three two or two That’s insane.
Three one. Grand.
It was a three one.
Who cares? That’s crazy.
But that’s the point is, like, I was looking up data in, you know, nine, ten, and these houses went from then they’re, like, what, hundred forty, hundred fifty. They’re selling for twenty, thirty, forty thousand.
Right.
So you’re getting, what, seventy percent off, but rates rental rates only went down, like, two, three percent during that time.
Correct. That was what’s crazy. So the same time we were buying these homes, you’re exactly right. Two hundred, two hundred and fifty thousand, we’re getting nine hundred, a thousand, twelve hundred dollars for rent.
Well, when they went all the way down to twenty five thousand, I was still getting nine hundred, nine fifty for rent. Do the math. Let’s go back then. We’ll, you know, add to that portfolio because I still own a lot of those deals.
People say, oh, you you got rich overnight or something. No. This is twenty two years of the grind staying, stabilizing, you know, maintaining these relationships. So it’s interesting.
Again, hindsight’s twenty twenty. But what I recognize going back to the beginning on flipping these houses was there was always this appreciation. But I think, you know, it’s also important to recognize you got luck. Is luck is a huge factor in anything, but you gotta create the luck.
Right? Appreciation, you get a little lucky. It’s better than being smart.
Yeah. I mean, when we started, you know, Batch with just our first product, Batch Skip Tracing, it’s the same thing. We’re at the right place at the right time. You’re at the right place at the right time, and you took advantage of your opportunity.
And Right. We were able to do that as well. So was, like, nine, ten when you really started building the rental portfolio and get got away from flipping? Because I know you still flip a little bit.
Still flip. Absolutely.
But you normally remodel a house and then hold it now, typically.
I typically like it depends on the asset class. When I say asset class, pricing, specifically. If it’s under four hundred fifty thousand, I try and retain it because I wanna long term capital gain and, you know, I could talk about my criteria for buying and, you know, I want the depreciation on the asset. I want the long term capital gain for multiple reason, and I also want the appreciation.
Right.
But if it’s over four fifty or five hundred, typically, it’s not gonna cash flow in this market for the level that I want. Unless, of course, the anomaly is if you have so much equity in there, if you got an amazing deal, you’ve created so much equity, it behooves you to stabilize that asset for a year to get a long term capital gain than just selling it. So you you’re not gonna get the cash on cash return in terms of rental, but you’re gonna get the long term yield by stabilizing it for the year plus hold.
And just Just something to look at. And having a good asset that’s just gonna continue to appreciate A hundred percent specific areas and Paradise Valley Valley malls, certain things like that really come into play in the determining factor of am I gonna exit right away and flip it, or am I gonna hold it?
But ideally, it’s great to have a dual exit on anything to know that you can either, a, pivot and just rent it or, b, sell it. And I always like to actually put them both up for sale or for rent, you know, and it just shows you have more leverage against either opportunity.
Just on the personal side, you know, every friend that comes into town that wants a short term rental, you are the first person that I call.
I appreciate it. We’ve done this is so cool. Right? I remember your guy rented for me and Iwatukee called me right away.
He’s like, hey. I need six months. I think we gave him a year, whatever it was. Yeah.
I think it’s eight months.
Great to have it, but it’s all about these relationships. Right? Like, it’s so important to be consultated with everybody, take care of them. And again, I could talk about a specific deal right now.
I just bought on Cochise and, got a good deal on it. Paid two ninety two and a half for it. It’s probably worth retail, retail, four fifty, five hundred. I’ll probably put eighty to a hundred into it.
But I got a call from another, renter of mine. This is I got somebody moving in from out of state. They want a pool ready in September. I said I have the perfect house.
I just bought it. So instead of just thinking about flipping that, the power of these relationships, ninety percent of my homes get rented from a referral of a friend, a colleague, or one of my other tenants. So that’s why it’s so important in my opinion to be vertically integrated in managing these relationships. Like, you cross collateralize deals to banks, you cross collateralize these relationships, and boom, that’s where the power really transpires.
Yeah. So let’s let’s talk about how you acquire deals because the thumbnail of this clip is gonna be how you spend no money on marketing and you have three hundred rental properties.
Just under for the record.
But yeah. Two hundred and ninety seven.
Whatever.
Yeah. I that’s a good point. I spend zero dollars on marketing right now, but let’s not forget, you know, what I I built the foundation, which is my reputation from two thousand and two. So I’ve been in specific single family real estate, specifically Arizona, building these relationships Right.
To become top of mind. And how do you do that? Number one, be friends with guys like you and everyone at the top of the game, showing up to networking events, doing podcasts, utilizing social media, but really showing up and and engaging people and consistently executing and surpassing expectations. I wanna be known as the guy that, hey, if we’re gonna do a deal, you don’t have to babysit me.
When I sign a contract or I give you my word, one hundred percent, I’m never not closed on a deal. You could call anyone in the entire world. I’ve never backed out of a property. I’ve never closed a a minute late on a property.
So when you do deals with someone and you’re getting into this business, it’s super important to always execute execute, always over communicate, you know. Be a bull in whatever you’re doing and just crush it. Just surpass everybody’s expectations so they don’t say, hey, where’s their earnest money? Be like, it’s already a title.
Hey, when are you closing? Money’s already sent. Doc’s already signed. Be ahead of the curve.
You know? Streamline things and just exceed expectations. Always execute, over communicate, and get it done. Don’t play games.
Today, you primarily being that buyer. So you work with wholesalers a ton. That’s how you get the majority of your wholesalers and realtors, I’m assuming.
Yep. Realtors, wholesalers. I get a lot of referrals from title companies on fallouts that people sign it up or they’re middlemen in deals and the deal falls apart. They don’t come up with the money.
When people need some closed in a day and they can’t get hard money quick enough. I mean, there’s a a million different ways but yes, the large majority of my deals come from referrals of wholesalers and agents. Well, let’s talk about batch leads. So like I don’t use so how am I finding these deals?
It’s all from again, word-of-mouth, top of mind, you know, peep people use investor lift or all these different batch leads and see who’s bought in certain areas. Don’t you guys have something on batch leads that shows who bought in that area and they can target me as well? Or No.
Yeah. No. I mean, we have we have cash buyers and we have, a lot of great different ways to we have a a whole agent outreach section to where you could look up agents in specific areas that you wanna target to either, you know, sell a deal to or see if they have any clients that are looking for something or just start building those relationships for with agents too, kind of like what with what you do and say, hey. If you have an off market property, I wanna be I wanna be your buyer.
Or if you have a Absolutely.
A property that, you know, needs a bunch of fixing up and the seller wants to sell fast, you know, I could pay you out personally or so on. You know?
You know, all the different levers you could pull to Absolutely.
So that’s huge. So where were you guys in two thousand two? I’ve needed you for a long time. Right?
You know, a little late to the game, but you’re here now and you guys have a significant presence, which is great. So if I’m a young host people always ask me, okay, Zach. If I’m a wholesaler, I don’t have any money, what do you do? You engage.
You leverage this technology, invest in yourself, you start reaching out, you become a middleman. You’re a human capital. You’re taking action. You bet on yourself as the horse and make the connection between an end buyer right now, somebody who has the capital, and a distressed asset or somebody who’s representing that distressed asset.
Make the connection and get paid for being that matchmaker until you do enough of those deals to acquire your own properties. I’m a huge advocate. When people call me, the fir one of the first things I say is, how come you’re not buying that asset yourself? What what’s hindering your ability to do that?
So you need to ask yourself, what’s missing? And if your hindrance is capital, start raising capital. If your hindrance is the relationships, build the relationships. It’s very transparent in terms of what’s missing, what’s your bottleneck in your business, and focus on that missing link.
And then also, learn what you’re good at and what you’re not good at. Totally. Your superpower has always truly been, relationships, and you’re always highly engaged. Every time I see you with anyone, you’re highly engaged.
You care about their success or what they’re doing. Mhmm. And you’ve just always been a people person and a giver. And I think that’s just who you are, and you’ve leaned into that, and it’s made you very successful in business.
Yep. I think it’s important to always, like, truly, like, get to know people. Like, I I know you personally. Congrats, by the way, and a new baby coming out. Thank you.
Thank you.
I love your wife. I’ve been to your house playing pickleball. Like, the people you do business with, get to know them. Is business that comes and goes, but build those solid relationships where you get to know people intimately and, you know, break bread with them, play pickleball, do whatever, you know, you guys desire where you guys connect. That will enhance the relationships and the referrals and being top of mind, but ultimately just become friends with people. It’s a very simple process.
I mean, I really think what changed our relationship was you just donating so much money to me at our poker game. Yeah. You know, I I really appreciate that.
My pleasure. You are a better poker player than me for sure. I listen. When you’re when you suck at something, you own it.
Right? But you Jesse’s actually a great poker player. So if you guys become friends with him, I encourage you to do that. Maybe make sure there’s a max buy in of a hundred dollars instead of a couple thousand out of the game.
I guess, I know you’re you’re not the person that that likes to boast and brag, but I know you do care about people, and I know you do have some type of coaching. Can we touch on that a little bit?
Sure. I did, dabble in coaching couple years ago. We built a very robust, comprehensive course with my buddy Luigi, great filmmaker, works for InvestorLift, and, we are rekindling that. So we have all these comprehensive videos.
It’s all online. We’re building a little community on there through school. So it’s under flip Lift, and it’s got all access to how do I raise money. It’s got real transparent videos of, you know, how I’m buying deals in, consultatively raising money with investors.
You name it. How I’m scaling, my banking relationships, dealing with appraisers. Anything you wanna know on fix and flip and buy and hold is in that course and that one for all these self promotion, whatever you brought it up. But it is a very good course.
It gives you the full road map of of what to do from somebody who’s day in and day out doing it, not some self proclaimed guru, which I can’t stand that word. But, again, if you’re gonna learn from someone, make sure you connect with them. Check it out. It’s, like, ninety eight dollars a month.
We wanna make it super affordable for people so they can take massive action and really build their net worth and change their legacy for their family and their future families. Ninety Ninety eight bucks. Ninety eight dollars. Wanna keep it affordable.
Wow.
And you guys, Zach is the person where he does like to give back, but a lot of these coaches and gurus, they made their fortune selling courses Right.
Not buying and selling houses.
Made for the record zero dollars to date on any coaching, literally. I mean, it just it is what it is. I make my money on real estate. It’s something. I like to engage the community, have some fun. It’s not about, you know, making millions of dollars on coaching.
If if I could put my name behind anybody, anybody, you would you would be one of them because I see the deals you do. As I said, we have done a lot of stuff, you know, outside of work, spending time with each other, and you are always on the phone. You’re in between pickleball games.
You are talking to someone that’s trying to sell you a deal, and you’re trying to understand, is this a good deal or is this not? And if it’s not a good deal, I feel like you teach them on why it’s not a good deal and how they contracted this property, you know, wrong. And you’re just I mean, you’re a little more crass. You’re like, you’re an idiot. Why why do you No.
I don’t say I say that maybe after that.
But it is important. Like, it’s a good learning lesson. I think that every upper incoming call or outgoing is an opportunity to not just give a quick yes or no. It’s not like red light, green light, yes, no, go, stop.
It’s really important to slow it down, get on that yield, and understand, okay, where are you coming from? How can we make this work versus no, it’s not gonna work, you’re an idiot. Hey, thank you for bringing me this opportunity. This doesn’t work, let’s refine what you’re bringing me for my buy box.
Hey. This was disseminated on a big list. I don’t buy stuff that’s out on the open market or it’s been disseminated to twenty five different people, and this is how I work. So let’s take an opportunity to refine that relationship, understand each other’s needs, and then the next phone call is gonna be much more productive.
So I think so many people have this mentality of, oh, red light, green light. Let’s just either stop or go, and that’s it. Me, I’m like, hey. Let’s slow it down.
Let’s have a conversation.
Let’s connect for a little bit and then figure out how we can do some business. So every opportunity the other thing too is if you’re getting starting this business, I’m a huge advocate by the way. Number one thing, get your license. Okay?
I think I think there’s a lot of regulations changing. I think you can leverage that in so many different capacities. It’s important to wear a belt with multiple notches, not just be a one trick pony on one thing. Don’t just wholesale.
You can be a wholesale. You could be an agent. You could be a fix and flipper, all within that domain. And by doing, you know, agent outreach or by marketing other people’s homes or it’s it’s not the right fit for you to buy it, but you could represent that person and still get a three percent or whatever commission.
You’re getting your name and branding out there, which is super important. Getting your signs, getting those incoming calls now where someone sees you and they say, hey, Jesse. I see your sign over here. What’s the story in this house?
And then Jesse says, hey, thanks so much for calling. By the way, do you have any other distressed assets? It’s such a warm opportunity. Instead of just calling someone cold through back services, now you’ve got proper real estate.
You’ve got branding. Someone knows you’re an action taker and that’s a domino effect of getting a lot more opportunities. So a little word to the wise out there. A huge advocate for getting a license, getting your name in front of real estate to have really good conversations about what’s going on in the market.
Yeah. I couldn’t second that more. I when I got into, real estate, I got my license first, but I got my license in, thirteen. And what I was doing at that time, that’s when you could find a lot of short sales, a lot of preforeclosures, a lot of distressed assets on the MLS. So, like, I wasn’t a typical agent. I was I had a group of investors or different investors that I was going and finding houses for and then being their buyer’s agent, and then I negotiate something on the back end to be their listing agent.
Love that.
And I soon when that started changing and it started to get harder and harder with more and more people getting into fixing and flipping with all the TV shows that were going on at the time and that just got started up about ten years ago. I learned about, you know, going direct to seller and finding deals off market. So then I added that into my tool belt. Once I started making money there, I started using that money to do fix and flips. And once I started making money doing all three of those strategies, I started building my rental portfolio. So, I think that the more ways you have to be able to help a homeowner is just better for the homeowner. So you don’t go in with a certain strategy or saying, this is this is how I’m gonna buy this house.
A hundred percent.
To go into that homeowner, that belly to belly meeting and say, what is within your mind, what is the best way to help this person? And I’m gonna do that. You should not be dictating that relationship with money. It’s like, how can I service this person the best way and however however I get compensated, if this way I may make a little less, but it’s better for that person, you you have to go into it wholeheartedly just trying to help someone and solve their problem?
I couldn’t say it any better.
I agree one hundred percent verbatim, except for one thing. I would say not even about the money. Even if you don’t make any money and then you just service them, it’s I I believe in karma. This business I’m telling you, there’s so much karma.
If you always operate above the table, you do the right thing, good things are coming. You can never get too emotional about a deal if it’s not meant to be. You don’t chase it. If you lose it, I promise you there’s two or three more that are gonna come your way in the next day or two that are gonna be a better investment for you, better deployment of your capital and time.
So never get too caught up on the emotions of a deal. Always serve the people to the highest level based on their utility and needs, and good things are coming your way. I promise you.
Yeah. I I love it because I I love going in, and I’d see someone that wants a cash offer, and their house would be in pretty good shape. And I’m like, why aren’t we putting this on the market and getting every everybody’s eyes on it? And then Right.
You’ll there there’s always a situation. But a lot of the time, it’s, you know, you have to educate them. Do you want convenience? Do you want the most money?
Absolutely. Like, what are you really looking for? And, it it just really depends on the situation. We have a lot in common on how we operated on the real estate side.
That a hundred percent good for you because that’s a rare breed. Most people come in, again, one trick pony. I’m only coming with cash. I’m only gonna offer creative versus I’m coming in to serve you.
What’s important to you? What’s your time frame? You’re not in foreclosure. You’re current on your mortgage.
I’m not the right fit for you in terms of buying for cash. Why would you leave this much money on the table potentially? There’s no guarantee. Right?
We retail it and we saw it. There’s no guarantee in anything in life. I hate the word guarantee.
You can tell people that.
But you say, hey. Let’s put this on the market. Let’s get you the most money. Unless for whatever the reason, you need money tomorrow, that’s a different story.
Right. This is what I can offer cash. This is what I think the retail value is if we listed it. And then I I go further and show them, here’s all the highest numbers that sold.
Let’s initial this so you I’m showing you these numbers and you’re signing off on this Yeah. To mitigate risk or liability. It’s always important just to give full disclosure. Right?
Statue of frauds, get everything in writing, get signatures over disclosed, never under disclosed. When in doubt, disclose in real estate. You’ll keep yourself out of court.
So I know you’re buying and selling and renting and and and doing just a lot of stuff every day, to be honest with you, networking, all of it. What is what is a typical day look like in the life of Zach Keeps, the investor?
Great question.
You your life lifeblood is on acquisition. The business is made on on buying.
It’s also made on, you know, keeping tenants and everybody happy. You gotta you know, you’re managing so many different things at once. My daily life is help is number one. Right?
I just got over and I’m in the middle of it a little bit. I got the shingles. Right? I think I do too.
I own it. Right? I I’m going, put the pedal to the metal. It’s green. I’m going so hard.
Lack of sleep. Whatever. So you gotta own that and take good care of yourself. And maybe I burned it out a little too much, but I own that.
That. So, in the morning, walk the dogs, go to the gym, get that good energy. I’m big on energy and connection. If I’m in a bad mood and I’m managing the crews and I’m managing designers, I’m managing, you know, acquisitions and engaging with people, it’s always important to bring your highest and best self with good energy.
I’m a huge advocate. I don’t believe in fake energy or anything else. And if there’s an issue you’re feeling bad, you just don’t, hey. I’m having a bad day.
How are you doing? Sorry. My energy is a little low. I’ve just just let people know what’s going on.
But, the number one thing in the day is buying deals. So someone’s calling me, top wholesalers or other agents, answer your dang phone. I’m always unless I’m in a podcast or shooting film or whatever. Right.
I’m the first guy picking up the film, connecting, FaceTiming, building these relationships, engaging with my management team for rentals. Go ahead.
Let’s let’s stop there. I hate to interrupt you, but this dude is is so so obsessed with personal connections. He FaceTimes you for everything. If I call him, he will literally click the FaceTime button.
Yeah. He is like that with everyone. He wants when he’s talking to you to know, I’m here. I’m present with you.
I’m talking to you. You are the only person I’ve ever seen that all you do is FaceTime people, and I’ll just I’ll be in my my my house, and I’ll just answer with my shirt off. Like, I don’t care.
You’ve answered in the shower a couple times, which I appreciate too. You know, he’s Jesse likes to flex, which is he’s looking good on his machines and getting ripped. But no. I mean, I think, again, going back to that top of mind mentality, how do people remember when to call Jesse, when to call Zach?
What’s your specialty? Well, if you’re connecting them with the highest level and and and also letting them know that you’re one hundred percent present with them, that helps that top of mind mentality. So when I’m looking you in the eye and we’re connecting, there’s something just fun about the FaceTime. Right?
It’s just much more, engaging and much more personal and intimate to connect on that level. It’s not like, oh, I I can’t hear you on the phone. I wanna see you. But they prefer to even be in person.
Engaged too if you’re FaceTiming.
They’re paying attention.
Right.
Even when I’m negotiating deals, it’s funny when wholesalers call me, I get a text. Zach, I got, Garfield, three two one nine Garfield at this price. I don’t even know who this is. FaceTime.
I wanna know who who’s sending me this deal? Who who are you behind this deal? Right? Let’s connect.
Right. Now we’re building a relationship. Oh, that’s you. Okay. You’re really calling. It’s really me?
It’s not some acquisitions guy from my team. It’s not some fake offer. Tell me about this deal. Are you direct to seller?
What’s your story? How’d you acquire this? How can we do business? Right. You know? So it’s funny.
You don’t have it. It is you. You are all of it. You are the property manager.
You are the acquisition. You are the disposition.
Don’t you have, like, a property manager assistant or people have a little bit?
Vicky is my assistant. She does all the back end stuff like the utilities, the registration of rentals, all the HUDs, all the back end paperwork stuff she handles. She engages with tenants. I do have a full time, maintenance guy, Daniel. He’s amazing.
And then when he gets overwhelmed, he’s got other people to send out. But, I mean, we run so lean, so efficient. I mean, with just under three hundred homes, one full time, maintenance guy. But I think that’s a tribute to to the the contractors that I work with, the solid work that we do.
I think it’s really important when you’re putting out a product out there that you don’t do just Band Aids. Right? And you’re constantly replacing Band Aids. I believe in full surgery.
I believe in spending the money to make the money. I say it time and time again so that we really stabilize these properties for long term holds to mitigate, you know, issues happening. I think it’s important when you’re doing digesting these homes to do the full surgery. Look at everything.
If the if the compressor is bad and the AC is nine or ten years old, I’m not replacing the compressor. I’m putting on a new unit. If we’re my crew’s already there. I want good economies of scale.
Do the whole thing great once. Put in the full tile, the new kitchens, the appliances. Don’t just get some used junk and hope for the best to be some slumlord. Have a really good product, have really good relationships with the tenants, and then you’re mitigating risk and you can grow and scale faster by not circling back and wasting time and wasting energy going to keep putting Band Aids on things.
Spend the money, stabilize, make a beautiful product, and move forward.
And then you’re typically pretty aggressive on kind of the lower side, not lower, but, like, the more conservative side on the rentals and you go for, like, two year leases a lot and stuff like that. Right?
It’s not that I go for two. I mean, I do there’s no point really to do a two year lease because they could break them in Arizona, but I just my retention is really high. So I end up somebody moves in a house. Again, I use the Yelp analogy.
When you come into the restaurant at Zach Ventures and you wanna eat here, I wanna give you a five star, you know, service. I wanna give a five car quality. I want communication, relationship, you know, all of the above. So I think about that.
It’s not just the product. How am I making you feel? I invite you into the family. When a tenant rents for me and I look you in the eye, I say, hey.
Welcome to the Zac Ventures family. I wanna make sure that your your family’s fully taken care of in the home. By the way, I have really good friends and a good network of people out here. If there’s anything you guys need, doctors, attorneys, whatever it is, you’re part of the family.
Let me serve you. That goes a long way. It’s not just, hey. Let you’re an annuity of income to me like I’m a hedge fund, and I’m just managing these properties.
That goes a long way to people letting them I hug people when they move in. I wanna get to know them. What are your kids’ names? What’s your dog’s name?
And then here’s my direct number. Right? You they all know they can call me if there’s an emergency, if you need whatever it is. Zach, I’m gonna be a week late in rent, whatever’s let me know what’s going on.
I’m gonna take care of you versus, oh, it’s x amount of dollars per day, whatever. I’ll show leniency when you communicate with me, and we have that mutual respect.
So let’s talk about it’s definitely been, I guess, a crazy four years of how the market’s changed, like, drastically multiple times in multiple ways. Like, how do you look and how do you pivot and and and change your buy box, you know, so so quickly? Because it’s like COVID started. No one was buying.
You couldn’t do anything. Everyone’s scared. Then prices go ballistic. And then interest rates go crazy and prices like, it’s been a wild journey, these last four years for people inside real estate.
That’s agents, investors, homeowners, people trying to buy homes, renters, all of it. It’s been absolutely wild. So, like, give me your thought on that.
That’s a great point. There’s a lot of volatility, always different things that we don’t have control. So, really, I I can control what I can control, and I can’t worry about the things I can’t. But it’s always important to pivot and adapt.
For me, I’m always buying. If you look at it and you guys have the data, everyone has the data. I when people weren’t buying during COVID, I was buying. People will walking away from earnest money.
They’d call me, Zach, will you pick this up? You always wanna buy the discount. It’s super important to buy with equity so you have the ability to pivot and adapt. I always like to say dollar cost average into the market.
You know? Yeah. I bought some stuff, at the top after the COVID run, and now it’s done. Let’s call it ten percent.
But I’m not worried about it. I’m playing the long game. I have enough stuff that I’m buying below market or I have enough equity in it that if I had to fire sell something, which I don’t because I’m very under levered, and conservative, I’m good. So I think it’s just I consistently buy regardless of the market because I’m dollar cost averaging to get a really good basis.
It keeps the crews busy. It keeps everybody engaged, the designers, the contractors, the maintenance, the assistants, everybody, and just keep, you know, moving forward. But you wanna be conservative. You don’t just buy to buy.
You fine tune your, your buy box. Right? So before let’s say, maybe in a a amazing market, if you’re just flipping, you’re gonna be a little bit more lenient. Right?
You’ve seen the rates drop, inventory levels are dropping, you could be a little more aggressive.
Right.
But when, or more lenient and aggressive, if you will. But when things are tighter, you figure, okay, I’m just gonna end up owning this. You think about, okay, how does this perform as a rental? If the mark if there’s a lot of fear in the market and the retail whole commission things changing, people are just so many unknowns.
It’s kind of stagnant. People don’t, you know, know what’s going on. I just factor. I’m gonna buy this asset.
I’m gonna retain it in my rental portfolio, and that’s predictable for me because I know how much I can rent it. If I sell it, great. That’s the icing on the cake. If I sell it, great.
You make some money. But at the end of the day, am I gonna buy this asset? Do I love the price today? What will it yield me from a rental return?
And will this be a legacy property? Do am I happy to own this for, you know, ten or twenty years? And is this the best and highest use of my capital today? And if not, what is a better asset class or a better project to be in?
Those are the questions you need to ask yourself on a day to day or month to month basis.
So, yeah, let’s talk about, you know, the perception of a landlord because you have, you know, quite a few properties, about three hundred of them. And, you know, do people look at you like they look at, you know, the hedge funds and just look at you as this awful person that’s taking advantage of renters.
There’s a there’s a negative stigma with some people out there that say, hey. What the heck? You know, you’re affecting them. I’m just I’m nothing on the overall scheme of things. You got hedge funds that own, you know, tens of thousands of homes. I’m nothing compared to those big guys, so I’m not making a big dent on the market.
But people that say that, I wanna be clear, that actually I give my tenants the opportunity to buy the home. So if you’re in a home, any of my homes, I tell them after a year because I want a long term capital gain and rates come down, you’re welcome to purchase the home. So I’m the first guy to sell to first time home buyers. It’s not like look.
We always have a choice of who we sell to and how we do business. I I love VA people, the people who’ve served in the military. I’ve given discounts and stuff. So I’m all an advocate for for first time home buyers.
I’m happy to sell my inventory to these buyers and and and assist them in in making that dream a reality. So, I think it’s important to give them an equitable interest. If it’s a home that they love and they can afford and they can qualify at any time, you can buy that home. It’s not like I’m taking these off the market and I’m never gonna sell them.
Also, any home at any time at the right price or if it’s a good mutual deal for somebody, I’m I’m a seller as well because I can redeploy that money. Again, we talk about dollar cost averaging. There’s always an abundance of homes to buy. I’m just one buyer.
Right. And whenever I’m with you, it’s just you’re you’re buying some stuff, you’re selling some stuff, you’re flipping some stuff. And so, like, what he’s saying is what he does. He’s always just kinda moving and shaking and just kinda doing whatever it takes.
I love the deals. Like, if you don’t love the art of the deals or engage you with people one thing I don’t do business with assholes, like, people call me on a deal and they get aggressive. I’m like, I don’t need to buy this deal. You know, it’s a good position to be in where you’re like, go sell your deal with somebody else.
Else. In fact, don’t ever call me again. There’s no reason to be aggressive or abrasive or whatever. No reason for that.
So I choose to be around good like minded people with good energy, good karma. And I love you know, people say, when are you gonna be done? I’ll be done when I’m bored or I don’t, you know, enjoy the business. I it’s a great business.
It’s the best business in the world. You know? The data is super important. The relationships are everything.
But you gotta have fun with it. People take this stuff too seriously sometimes. You gotta relax. Remember, playing the long game, there’s gonna be ups and downs, but keep a keep a level head. Have fun with it. Really be around people that you enjoy being around.
No. Because you you love it. Like, Zach keeps is real estate. Like, that’s just all you know and what you do.
People forget they’re like, oh, I’m gonna have a portfolio in, you know, six months or a year just like them. Like, okay. I wish listen. I wish abundance for everybody, but they gotta understand this is like I’ve worked literally seven days a week for the last, you know, twenty two years.
Even when I’m on vacation, people know I’m on my phone. I’m doing deal in fact, I bought a lot of deals when I’m traveling. I’m in Michigan or I’m, you know, out of the country or whatever it is. I’m constantly engaged.
I don’t just, you know, take my foot off the pedal. Now I have a question for you, my man. So you guys have all the data. You have all the information at your fingertips.
How are you leveraging the data that you guys have from batch to make good financial decisions for yourself? Where are you deploying? You guys are a cash cow, a very successful company. What do you do independently to deploy your capital?
What type of asset class are you in, and how are you leveraging the data in your real estate portfolio?
In twenty twenty one and twenty two. And this goes back to, I guess, how how you think and, I’ve learned a lot from you and just a lot of people that have been majorly successful is it’s, like, really drill into one thing. So besides, a couple houses, I sold all my real estate.
And I focused to make sure we could be singularly focused on how do we serve and and help the real estate community with our products and our technologies.
Because if you diversify and you’re trying to be great at a whole bunch of different things, it’s really hard to grow one big thing. Yep. And I that was a tough thing for me to to do because real estate’s how I became a millionaire. It’s how I made my first million dollars in a year.
And I I really identified as a real estate person. And I kinda had to be like, well, I’m still in real estate to some degree, but I’m not someone that’s buying and selling and flipping and and owning rentals. And because even owning, you know, twenty, thirty doors as I did at that time, there there’s no such thing as passive income. Even if you have a property manager, them calling you and another repair to be done or someone moved out or there’s this problem. Semi passive income.
You’re calling me.
Passive income.
I mean, it’s it’s a great way to create wealth, but we really wanted to focus, you know, creating my wealth, through building a really cool software company.
And company. And and that’s where, like, we’ve really and I personally stayed focused. So a lot of that that money that I made from all the real estate I sold, I either put it into hard money, which is pretty passive, and then also, deployed more of it into batch to to keep growing the company.
I love that. So you’re betting on yourself just like I do. It’s that game of compounding, you know, action. Same thing. If I sell a house, it’s not like I’m out of the market. I’m just gonna go redeploy that money immediately back into my company, into new asset classes as quickly as possible just like you exited real estate, real estate hard assets, but you put it into the technology company to serve the masses and the community and your core competency technology.
Yeah. And it was just really hard trying to grow as a real estate software business and then do a bunch of wholesaling and flipping. I I feel like we were letting people down, and we were getting spread too thin. And I feel like going back to people with shiny object syndrome.
And and as you said, you stayed focused on real estate single family. Mhmm. And that’s where you have all these people buying all these apartments or doing all these things in different markets, and you’re just kinda like, cool. I’m a do my thing.
And I kinda got there too because I see all my friends making all this money, all these different ways selling courses and doing things. And I was like, I’ve done, like, five hundred deals. Like, I could be a real estate coach. And I just had to sit back, and all I ask myself is, what would Zach Keeps do?
And stay focused.
Stay focused. Right? You know, just become an expert. Become a dominant force on one subject matter.
Be that expert and be that go to person. And so when people think about data, they think about batch. Yeah. They think about Jesse.
I I sure hope so.
When people think about poker, they think about, don’t invite Jesse.
So before we go, one last thing. You know, someone that wants to start building a portfolio, what are the, you know, one, two, three most important things to really get started? Great question.
To build a portfolio, first, it starts with one home at a time.
Right? They have a portfolio, you need one. So don’t get so don’t get ahead of yourself. Just start buying good deals, good first deal with equity, the cash flows that you could effectively, burrow.
Right? So what do I mean by that? A deal that you can stabilize if you’re gonna create value through remodel or it already has tremendous equity. You put a tenant in there.
You could take it to the bank and say, hey. How much will you lend against this asset? Can you get a DSCR loan? Can you refi it?
If you could do that a couple times, then you can aggregate those homes and cross collateralize multiple homes to then utilize that equity to continue to grow and scale. This is an infinite game. People make it so complex.
We’re really hyper focused on getting good equity and stabilize that first deal, get it rented and cash flowing, build banking relationships. So many people fell on the fact that they think that there’s unlimited capital out there. There’s not unlimited capital, but you can constantly be raising money for OPM to create good joint venture partnerships. That’s how I started. But also becoming bankable, and it’s really important. Make sure your credit’s in line.
Make sure you’re paying taxes to show that, you know, these bankers that you are making money.
Show that you’re making money that I don’t care if you have a million deals, you know, free and clear and you show no income. There’s no way a bank’s gonna lend you money because you show no income. So it’s important to be bankable. Build everything from the ground floor.
Right? Homes aren’t built and for the roof up. They’re built from the foundation up. So have that good foundation.
Start with one. Perfect the business model. Show people you know what you’re doing by stabilizing one home, become an expert in that, and then collateralize that and go to two or get OPM, raise other people’s money, and create a joint venture, mutually beneficial, whether you’re giving up equity or a preferred return. There’s a million ways to structure the deal.
One home, one relationship at a time, one private money relationship, one good bank. Put it all together, and boom, you will be successful. But take your time. This isn’t like people think I gotta get twenty homes by this time.
Be patient. Delayed gratification. I’ll say it again. Delayed gratification. I didn’t do this overnight. One amazing relationship at a time.
I’d rather have you have five incredible relationships than know a hundred people. I’d rather have you three good relationships than know three hundred people. Right? It’s all about these great intimate relationships that are gonna be mutually beneficial.
Go to different banks, interview them, find that long term partnership that will work for you, and just be top of mind. Slow it down. Have good branding. Do things the right way.
Over communicate, and just become a boss like Jesse, and you’re gonna do great.
And I I think the other important thing to think about is, you know, a lot of these, coaches and gurus talk about building these big teams and having to have all these people and resources.
Zach is that’s why I really wanted to have Zach on here is you did this on your own with a really small team, and just the most important thing is buying good deals. Like, if you want twenty properties, you better find twenty really good deals, or else you you you always lose when you buy bad. Hundred percent. If you buy good, you’re always good.
You’re you’re typically always fine. So I think it’s just really, really important for people to be patient and not try to say, hey. I need ten, twenty, thirty rentals in the next one, two, three years. Like, no.
It’s just how many good deals can you find? Because if you could find good deals, you could find other people’s money.
You could find ways to I always say this.
You know, the money always follows the deal. So if there’s a great deal, there will always be money behind it. Right. But I think it’s always important to be proactive in capital raising and relationship raising for the, acquisition so you can marry the two.
That’s really what you’re about. You’re a matchmaker. We’re the workhorses. There’s always gonna be an abundance of capital to fund those good deals.
Any money will come if you get an amazing deal and a low loan to value. It’s low risk for the investor. It makes economic sense. The other thing too, which is a great point is, you know, people perception is all you need these huge teams or management companies and all this stuff.
You don’t need to do that. You need to become a boss at your business, really intimate, know all the finite details. So if and when you decide to expand your team, you are familiar with every aspect because you can’t be a leader and you can’t delegate things that you’ve never done to someone. Tell them how to do the job if you haven’t been in the trenches.
So get yourself dirty. Don’t be afraid to understand. I was out there early in the days with the contractors. I don’t I’m not I don’t understand construction to the highest popcorn, looking at the guys, understanding the fundamentals of plumbing and bidding and all that stuff.
So get yourself in the trenches. Don’t be afraid to get dirty. Do the work. And again, if you have one success of one home, which you’re gonna gonna have, don’t all of a sudden start scaling and hire ten VAs and all the and get office space.
There’s no reason for it. I work out of my home even today. I don’t have this is forty four thousand square feet. I work out of my home and two hundred square feet in my office.
So again, don’t get ahead of yourself and over commit to all this overhead. You can do it yourself, bootstrap this thing until you are busting at the seams and then delegate and bring people on. So one home, one relationship at a time, don’t grow too quickly and have all this overhead in and sunk cost that’s gonna bankrupt you. Conserve your cash for great opportunities.
Have a good attitude. Have good energy. Have fun with what you’re doing, and I’ll see you at the top of the mountain.
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